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[politics] In which a presumed conservative attempts to school me on Obamacare - Lakeshore
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Jay Lake
Date: 2013-10-05 07:14
Subject: [politics] In which a presumed conservative attempts to school me on Obamacare
Security: Public
Tags:cancer, health, healthcare, media, personal, politics
A couple of days ago, a gentleman on Twitter of presumably conservative disposition decided to school me on my liberal misconceptions about the Affordable Care Act. It started when I made the following tweet, mocking someone whose unfortunate personal issues are expressing themselves painfully through a political lens.

measured discourse tweet

This was about the same time I had made my post entitled "The government shutdown and the ACA and me" [ jlake.com | LiveJournal ], which may influenced this gentleman's response. He dug out an old tweet of mine from January and responded thusly:

Obamacare tweets

With a follow up mocking my own supposed irrationality:

response to measured discourse

My response was:

spending cap reply

The thing is, @AndyHDavis was and is flatly wrong on the plain face of the facts. The ACA did help me, effective about two years ago. He's confusing the current healthcare exchange implementation process with the act as a whole.

Me, I'm wrong a lot too. Somedays I'm wrong about damned near everything. But if you're going to argue politics with me, don't get your talking points from FOX News. FOX News viewers are consistently the most misinformed segment of the public on damned near any topic you care to name. Most especially including Obamacare. Which is what happens when you privilege ideology over facts and data, as the entire Republican political, media and social establishment has been doing for the past two decades.

What I would say to @AndyHDavis as a followup, if I thought it would do any good at all to engage, is this:
"You were flatly wrong about the ACA and spending caps. Are you open to the possibility that you're wrong about other aspects of the ACA?"

More generally, if you're going to school me for being a stupid liberal moonbat, use actual facts from the real world, not noise from inside the conservative epistemological bubble.

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User: nicosian
Date: 2013-10-05 14:42 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Gah. I know the ACA rollout over the last couple years has had some profound benefits to friends. Its not ideal, but it's a start, one that was grossly overdue decades ago. (ideally, it'd have been single payer but we know that song and dance.)

As to the gentleman's query of what nation thrives under liberal ideals, I can think of many. Obama may not be dyed in the wool republican but I hesitate to call him liberal either.

The republican narrative these days just flatly astounds me in it's willful denial of this thing we call reality. ( And ok, our canadian conservatives too harbor the same sort of anti-fact-ness.)

Take care, and I am glad for you and the ACA.

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Elial Shadowpine
User: elialshadowpine
Date: 2013-10-08 02:45 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
They have. I turned 26 in March immediately after the allowance for kids to remain on their parents' insurance until 26. In that time, I was able to get much needed dental work, and more seriously, got sent to cardiologist because they were worried about my heart with my high blood pressure. It runs in the family so I wasn't too worried, but the heart isn't something to fuck around with. In those three months, I was able to get dental work, medical testing I had needed for years but hadn't ever been able to afford. In my case, everything was clear, but it well might not have been.

The fact that certain portions are of the "Hurry up and die" mindset is fucking horrifying to me.

Edited at 2013-10-08 02:58 am (UTC)
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martianmooncrab
User: martianmooncrab
Date: 2013-10-05 20:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
me for being a stupid liberal moonbat

if thats what you are, then what are They! *shudder*
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thecoughlin
User: thecoughlin
Date: 2013-10-05 21:55 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Amen. When the religion is rationalism you are the best of bodhisatvas.

Sadly you are dealing with dealimg with people lacking reality recognition.
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David Wilford
User: David Wilford
Date: 2013-10-05 23:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I would leave a bottle of Dr. Bronner's soap on that van and be happy to have given its driver much enlightenment.
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mcjulie
User: mcjulie
Date: 2013-10-07 21:45 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Over the years, I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that many (most?) people don't actually understand how facts work, and what makes them in any way different from strongly-held opinions.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2013-10-07 21:52 (UTC)
Subject:
That is unfortunately well put.
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Danny Adams
User: madwriter
Date: 2013-10-08 01:28 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
What he's also done is tacitly admit that if Obamacare hasn't gone into effect yet, then the companies that have been laying off and reducing hours for their employees over the past three years, as well as raising prices on their customers, are doing so using Obamacare as an excuse.

Which seems likely in many cases anyway.

Edited at 2013-10-08 01:28 am (UTC)
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Agent Mimi
User: agent_mimi
Date: 2013-10-10 09:16 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Given the other comments he's made and the things he's retweeted, from people like that "death panels" guy you ran into, I don't think reality and Andy Davis meet all that often.
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