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Jay Lake
Date: 2006-03-20 12:18
Subject: Lessons learned doing my six story challenge (long post)
Security: Public
Tags:personal, process, writing

As I mentioned here, with subsequent updates, I did a writing retreat this past weekend with a six story challenge. I wrote 26,200 words of first draft, with five finished stories. This was an interesting process, and it generated (or validated) certain insights for me about writing speed, productivity and career expectation.

Disclaimer: As many of you know, I have a day job in technical marketing. Therefore I have a tendency to try to reduce processes to numbers. I'm making a number of assumptions and SWAGs1 in this post. Take them with a huge grain of salt. I'm not making assertions about anything, even my own practice. Rather I'm just framing my thoughts about productivity.

Warning: very long post under cuts following

Voice, and what it means to shift gears so fast

I've posted on voice a couple of times recently, here and here to be specific. One aspect of setting myself this challenge was recognizing the need to shift voices. The process would have been different if I'd tried to write six stories in the same setting, or with the same character. I could have stayed in voice, in flow, and the net effect would have been more like writing a series of novel chapters.

As it was, my output varied considerably. In order, from Friday evening to Sunday evening, wrote:

TitleWord CountComments
Where the Water Meets the Sky2,400Near future utopian SF
C.V. of Pericles Chang800Object fiction
(experimental SF)
A Different Way into the Life5,600Contemporary urban fantasy
Crossing the Seven14,100Picaresque gonzo fantasy
The Leopard's Paw3,300Swords and sorcery
(inspired by Robert E. Howard)


There is something of an arc there, me not stripping my mental gears, though I did not notice it until just now. I started firmly in near-future SF, moved to contemporary urban fantasy, then crossed into more and more anaturalistic fiction. In other words, the degree of focus required in my thinking changed in a smooth progression.

At the same time, those are five distinct story types, setting and lengths. Shifts in length also substantially change the focus required from the writer brain.

I found a need for downtime of an hour or so moving from story to story. These aligned on various meal breaks and socialization on my part. (I took Saturday evening off from 4:30 on to go to a small dinner party with [info]bibliothec, which certainly served to clear my head, as I did not get back to writing until Sunday morning.)

The basic point to me is that I can shift mental gears quickly, and produce work I feel is up to my standards. It's a valuable lesson, though not a surprising one.

There's another point here I need to acknowledge, and that's the issue of fast writing. I know a number of people are uncomfortable with the idea that something written so rapidly can reflect an author's best work. Every hour of classroom training we receive from grammar school to graduate school tends to emphasize the opposite: revise, polish, edit, improve.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: for me, fast writing taps most deeply into the vein of my auctorial voice. I am not a brilliant writer. I am good (right now) at one thing. I don't shiny plots like Stephen King. I don't create deeply memorable characters like J.K. Rowling. I don't make the language my bitch like James Lee Burke. What I do well is voice. I'm decent at most of the rest of that stuff, and getting better, but right now I do voice. And voice comes, for me, with writing where my conscious mind, my inner editor, doesn't have time to step into the text, muck around with it, criticize my work.

If you're one of those people who reads me talking about writing fast and says, "it can't be that good if he wrote it that fast," well, I guess I disagree with you. Judge for yourself from my work, my career, my award and publication history.

If you're one of those people who reads me talking about writing fast and says, "he's a freak, that won't work for me," I have a suggestion. Try it. It certainly won't work for everyone, maybe not even for most people, but it's a neat trick if you can master it. You might surprise yourself with some good work.

Think about this, too: being able to write fast also makes a significant contribution to your ability to have a professional career. More on that point below.

How do we measure writing speed, and what does it signify?

Writing speed is a funny thing. As I see it, there's ramp up/ramp down speed, sustained speed and burst speed.

Ramp up/ramp down speed

Airliners fly around 600 mph. So why does a 600-mile flight take 90 minutes or more?

Imagine an airliner taxiing out at 10 mph, taking off around 140 mph, climbs to cruising altitude at increasing speed, then settling into cruise speed at 600 mph. It slows down to land, shedding speed on final approach, and touches down around 140 mph before taxiing in.

Writing is the same way, for me and probably for almost all other writers. No matter how mentally prepared you are, you don't sit down at the keyboard and blaze into full throttle on minute one. (Actually, this has happened to me a few times. It's a rather weird experience.)

I don't really have a method (or a need) to quantify ramp up/ramp down speed. Rather, it forms a sort of rounding-down factor when assessing overall writing speed. For example, when budgeting time for a project. See more on this below.

Sustained speed

Sustained speed is like the airliner moving at 600 mph. Once you're ramped up and into the story, and the mental prep, research and so forth are all squared away, this is how fast you work.

One of my long-term craft goals is to be able to write productively at my nominal typing speed. (FWIW, that would be about 3,600 words per hour.) I don't expect to ever achieve that level, for a variety of reasons, but I hope to asymptotically approach it over time.

In my own case, I am an extremely inefficient writer. I am probably adult ADHD -- never been clinically evaluated, but I usually max out the indicators those self-assessments you sometimes see. I cope with it just fine, largely by being very fast at most work tasks (writing or day job), so that my overall productivity essentially wipes out my efficiency penalty.

If you were to watch me write, you would see the keys flying for a couple of minutes. Then I'd jump into Google to check a date or an alternate spelling. Type another minute. Stare into space while I work out some scene blocking. Type two more minutes. Stop and check email, because if I do the same task too long I get very twitchy. (Why I stopped writing code, frankly.) Type another minute. Load Google News and see if anything exploded in the last twenty minutes. Repeat as necessary.

That's a work pattern that I suspect would be deadly for some writers, and disruptive for many. I simply don't work in a straight line.

The net impact is that my sustained writing speed is substantially less than my nominal typing speed. Experience has shown me that my sustained speed, when deep in a project, is about 2,500 words per hour.

Burst speed

This is when the juices are really flowing and I'm hitting it hard as I can. I rise above my sustained pace, set aside my ADHD-like ways, stop hearing when people talk to me, and type so fast my fingers hurt. My burst speed is north of 3,000 words per hour, approaching my nominal maximum. Burst speed isn't reliable, I don't count on it for anything, but it is an indicator of what level of productivity I can reach.

The difference between novels and short fiction, with respect to what has already been noted above

In the context of this discussion, I've also arrived at some conclusions about novels and short fiction. For purposes of simplification, I'm going to lump all short fiction together in one category and all novels in another. If I were doing a real business-grade analysis on this proposition, I'd break into six or seven categories, specifically:

CategoryWord Count
Flash1,000 words or less
Short1,000 - 7,500 words
Novelette7,500 - 17,500 words
Novella17,500 - 40,000 words
Short Novel40,000 - 75,000 words
Mid-Sized Novel75,000 - 150,000 words
Long NovelGreater than 150,000 words


(Note that these lengths are not arbitrary. There are significant differences in craft, technique, structure and plot sizing with those steps. There are naturally significant exceptions to each case as well.)

On to the simplified analysis.

Ramp up/ramp down speed is a significant factor in short fiction, meaning that it compromises a measurable portion of the effort in producing a story. For shorter work, the entire idea may emerge and be dealt with before achieving sustained speed. Even on a novelette or novella, that represents a decent chunk of the effort. Likewise, burst speed rarely enters into short fiction except in cases of extreme inspiration or works at the longer end of the range.

I stated above that my sustained speed is 2,500 words per hour. Looking at the amount of work produced and hours of effort involve in my six story challenge, I'd have to put my average rate of production for short fiction at about 1,500 words per hour, counting bathroom breaks and whatnot during the work session. This is net speed, a fourth way of thinking about writing speed.

What this means is that if I were budgeting time to write a 6,000 word story, I should allow about 4 working hours for the first draft. This does not account for research or other prep time, and it does not account for revision or marketing on the backside -- simply what it takes to get the first draft hammered out. But remember, the first draft is the pig iron of the writing process.

Novels, of course, are a different kettle of fish. A significantly smaller percentage of total time is consumed by ramp up/ramp down. There are also increased opportunities to work at my burst speed in those longer projects, have a 20,000 word day for example.

I know from recent experience with Other Me, Death of a Starship and Trial of Flowers that my average rate of production (i.e., net speed) for novels is about 2,000 words per hour. This means if I were budgeting time to write a 100,000 word novel, I should allow about 50 working hours for the first draft. Again, this does not account for research and other prep, nor does it account for revision or marketing.

See, this isn't just an academic exercise. Now I have a planning tool to help me evaluate deadlines. Obviously this only works for me because my writing behaviors are extremely consistent, but that's part of being a professional -- consistency.

Conclusion: I write novels faster than short fiction, on a words per hour throughput basis. I'd assumed that for a while, but I've never quantified it before right now.

The economics of a writing career, in a very rough cut

So now I'm going to map these numbers out to economics. Remember, these are very simplified cases. Assumptions include:

  • Every draft is successful, i.e., can be sold -- no time wasted

  • Marketing is a perfect effort, i.e., all work written is sold by me or my agent

  • No loss of writing speed is experienced (due to illness, stress, etc)

  • No adjustment for research time, since this is highly variable by project


Note these are not realistic assumptions, at least not for me. Rather, I don't have to build in fractional multipliers to account for them. (I could, remember, this kind of analysis is what I do in the day job, but the result, while significantly more accurate, would be annoyingly complex and rather less useful for the purposes of this discussion.) I'm mostly emphasizing this disclaimer because I don't want people to read this and then say "Jay said he can make $XX writing fiction." This is simplified, perfect-world stuff, intended to help me (and maybe you) think about the economics of a writing career.

I said above that I experience a net speed of 1,500 words per hour for short fiction and 2,000 words per hour for novels.

For short fiction I'm going to add a 50% time multiplier for revisions and marketing time, and no multiplier for downtime. In other words, I don't do extensive revisions on most short fiction, and the send-outs are a fairly trivial time investment on a per-story basis. Anent the downtime, I don't seem to need much between stories. A night's sleep is plenty. (This does not mean I could write short fiction continuously, day in and day out, eight hours a day. It simply means that when I do write short fiction I don't need to build in long breaks. Also, remember for discussion purposes I assumed "perfect marketing", which means stories sell in the first few sendouts.)

So for every hour I spend writing short fiction, I spend another 30 minutes revising and marketing. (Here's where the length assumptions go wonky, by the way. That's a ridiculous statement when applied to a 2,000 word story, but reasonable at 6,000 words, and bit ridiculous in the other direction at 20,000 words.)

For novels, I'm going to add a 100% time multiplier for revision and marketing time (though actual marketing load is low), and another 100% time multiplier for downtime. In other words, it takes me as long to revise a novel as it does to write it in the first place. I have also found I cannot simply slam from one novel to the next, and seem to require significant downtime between efforts. Taking my 50-hour first draft, that means another 50 hours of effort to reach revised draft, and 100 hours of down time from novel writing.

So for every hour I spend writing a novel, I spend another 3 hours revising and taking time off to reset my novel brain.

The above assumptions, while simplified, are based on my real life experience of the last year. They are not universals, though analogous assumptions should apply to any writer.

Let's take it back to words per hour.

I get 67% efficiency on my short fiction, following the formulation stated above. In other words, I spend 4 hours writing a 6,000 word short story in first draft, another 2 hours revising and marketing it, so I wind up at 1,000 words per hour as a paid working speed. (Yet another definition of speed. Follow that? It's the time to draft, plus the time to revise and market, which results in a paycheck given that I've assumed perfect marketing for discussion purposes.)

I get 25% efficiency on my novels, per the above, I other words, I spend 50 hours writing a 100,000 word novel, 50 hours revising it, and 100 hours letting the plot engine in my brain reset. That works out to 500 words per hours as a paid working speed.

Assume $0.05/word for short stories and $0.10/word for novels ($10,000 advance on 100,000 words). Again, remember this is "perfect marketing".

That means my 1,000 words per hour on short stories make me $50 per hour. My 500 words per hour on novels make me $50 per hour.

Weird, huh?

If I wrote full time (i.e., no day job, investing 200 hours per month in writing), at my current production parameters, in a perfect world I could write 12 novels a year, and make $10,000 per month doing it. Or I could write 8 novels a year, spend four months of the year writing 800,000 words of short fiction (not a typo, if you've followed the math), and still make $10,000 per month doing it.

So what does that all mean?

I'm not sure what it means. This has been a discovery process for me, working all this out. I can see some specific lessons -- things which should be obvious, but I now have a logical grounding for to support my intuitive grounding. Remember, I'm talking about my writing behaviors in a perfect-world context, so take this with a huge grain of salt.

Observation 1: Increasing my paid working speed will increase the economic health of my career.

Observation 2: I can do this by increasing my sustained writing speed, but then I already knew that.

Observation 3: Reducing the downtime requirement for novels would make a significant bump in my paid working speed. This would increase the value of novels with respect to short stories in terms of my writing income.

Observation 4: Novels have an open-ended upside on compensation. Advances scale proportionate to sales. (This applies to upside downside as [info]scarlettina noted in comments.) This scaling upside is not true of short fiction. So as my career progresses, the calculation will weigh more and more heavily on the novel side.

I don't think any of these observations should surprise anyone. But it's interesting to me to see them validated through specific data points about my own career.

I haven't gone to the trouble of building a spreadsheet to run these numbers, but I suppose I could. If anyone wants me to, say so in comments and I'll try to find the time to build a calculator. Frankly, I think obsessing with productivity numbers is a real danger to most writers. I don't obsess with it myself (despite the apparent evidence of this post), rather, this is my professional training -- analyzing how the numbers that make up a business work. And writing, for all that it is an art, is also a business.

So why did I do this? Ultimately, to set my expectations. I now have a more precise idea how to budget working hours for developing first drafts. I have a reasonable idea how to budget calendar time for committing to book deadlines, as well as short story deadlines. Those in turn help me be more professional, which hopefully means my agent and my editors want to work with me more.

If you stuck with the post for this long, good on you. Tell me what you think -- did I miss anything important, did I blow some key assumptions. 'Nuff said for me.




1 SWAG = "Scientific Wild Ass Guess", an intuitive evaluation technique frequently used in estimating software projects in absence of hard data.

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Kadath in the Cold Waste: rocket scientist
User: [info]kadath
Date: 2006-03-20 20:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:rocket scientist

SWAG = "Scientific Wild Ass Guess", an intuitive evaluation technique frequently used in estimating software projects in absence of hard data.

I have seen Offical Engineering Documents written by Actual Rocket Scientists with "WAG" listed in "References" section. It's a wonder we ever made it to the Moon.

Hope the travel is going smoothly.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 21:02 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I think we call that a USWAG around my joint... "UnScientific Wild Ass Guess"

Waiting to see if I get to Omaha in one decent piece.

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Mindy Klasky
User: [info]mindyklasky
Date: 2006-03-20 21:02 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Very interesting analysis, Jay. Having just come off of a week of Writing Marathon (novel writing, not short stories), I have number of my own to plug in, in a comparative analysis. (FWIW, I spend a greater proportion of my time editing/revising than you do, and somewhat less "restart" time, but I think that the averages for a 100K-word novel are surprisingly similar.)

Thanks for laying out your facts.

Mindy, too caught up in the non-money aspects of the day job (benefits, etc) to consider the Big Leap. Yet.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 21:11 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Thanks, Mindy. Yeah, if you're doing the dayjob-freelance equation, you have to mark up for benefits (40%?) and allow a one-year cash reserve, or more. Not a 1:1 ratio at all. Skews pretty far away from full time writing, for me at least, since I can't get private market insurance for the Child at pretty much any price.

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Jenn Reese
User: [info]jennreese
Date: 2006-03-20 21:16 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

That was a very fun read. :)

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Joanne Merriam
User: [info]joannemerriam
Date: 2006-03-20 21:19 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

This was interesting reading, and pinpointed for me something that wasn't really obvious to me before: when I work a full-time job (as I am doing now) I am adding significantly to my ramp up speed. For me, it takes several days to get into my writing mind (though once I am there I can sustain it for a long while if I don't take more than a day off from writing). I guess I should try writing an hour a day and see if that makes my ramp up speed shorten.

Thanks for the fodder for thought.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 21:21 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

In theory I try to write every day, for precisely that reason, though in fact it works out to 4-5 days a week, what with work and parenting commitments. That's why my usual goal setting is based on finished work per week rather than throughput, to give me flexibility without setting myself up for failure.

I'm glad the post was useful.

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User: [info]marksiegal
Date: 2006-03-20 21:24 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Good stuff. I'm equally fascinated by these logistical perspectives on writing, as I am by language, storytelling, etc. But I'll need a time multiplier of at least 100 percent before I can think up an intelligible response.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 21:49 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Hey Mark, my email's all figged up right now. Could you forward the link to this post to that mailing list we're both on?

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User: [info]marksiegal
Date: 2006-03-20 23:04 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Sounds good -- okay, it's done.

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scarlettina: Writing
User: [info]scarlettina
Date: 2006-03-20 21:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Writing

Always interesting, always challenging stuff from you when it comes to you writing about your own process.

I like your thoughts on writing rhythms and ramp-up/ramp-down time, and how breaks (long and short) affect speed and the burn of the process. I, too, spent a good portion of this weekend writing (3 hours on Saturday and Sunday each, which is unusual for me), though I didn't produce nearly as many words as you did. The ramp-up/ramp-down thing makes a huge difference. I always seem to take some time to ramp up. And I, too, tend to stop to research when a detail comes up (ask me about the delightful effects of jimsonweed some time), but often in the wake of same, I'm writing at the speed I was before I stoppped for research. What threw me off completely yesterday was taking a break to spend some social time with a friend; that seemed to nail any hope of writing again for the rest of the day. I was thoroughly out of the groove and suspect I won't get back there until tonight (given, you know, the whole full-time job distraction).

You said: Novels have an open-ended upside on compensation. Advances climb proportionate to sales.

This presumes that your novels continue to sell well. It's the rare publisher who won't cut the amount of money offered when sales are no longer commensurate with the pay rate. This is, of course, one reason authors move from house to house.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 21:47 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

This presumes that your novels continue to sell well. It's the rare publisher who won't cut the amount of money offered when sales are no longer commensurate with the pay rate. This is, of course, one reason authors move from house to house.

Fair enough. What I should have said is advances scale proportionate to sales. Which means either direction. :D

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The Swan: writing
User: [info]swan_tower
Date: 2006-03-20 22:11 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:writing

I have a suggestion. Try it.

Unfortunately, if I did, I would cripple my hands in short order. Physical inability is probably the biggest stumbling block between me and ridiculous productivity -- I simply can't afford, health-wise, to spend that much time at the computer, typing that intensively. (And yes, I do have dictation software, but I can't compose for shit with it.)

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 22:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Um, I'm not sure what to say to that. Except the obvious -- protect your hands. I guess I've been lucky there so far.

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The Swan: writing
User: [info]swan_tower
Date: 2006-03-20 22:35 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:writing

I didn't expect you to have a magic solution -- though it would have been awesome if you did, and I would have bowed down before you.

Mostly I think it's the downside of having very, very slender wrists -- my carpal tunnel is correspondingly very, very small, and (I think) prone to causing problems.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-20 23:12 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

:: waves magic carpal wand ::

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The Swan
User: [info]swan_tower
Date: 2006-03-20 23:19 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Gracias. And I'm sorry my hometown airport is causing you troubles. Normally DFW's a much safer bet than, say, Chicago.

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Cat Rambo
User: [info]catrambo
Date: 2006-03-21 00:54 (UTC)
Subject: Possible Solution?

Not to derail from this excellent and useful thread, but: Theswantower, have you tried voice recognition software? I've had a couple of colleagues with carpal tunnel who swore by it - I think the brand both were using was Dragon.

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The Swan: writing
User: [info]swan_tower
Date: 2006-03-21 01:02 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Possible Solution?
Keyword:writing

That would be the dictation software I mentioned upthread of here. I've used it, but unless there's been a radical advance since my admittedly outdated version, you have to speak your punctuation as well as your words, which effectively kills my ability to compose.

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Doctor Pipe
User: [info]dr_pipe
Date: 2006-03-21 01:22 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Possible Solution?

Maybe compose without punctuation to get the bulk of the writing down on screen, then go back and insert punctuation marks with your hands (or could you tap them in at the same time as dictation?)... Then at least you'd be using you hands a much smaller percentage of the time, and wouldn't have to say things like 'comma, exclamation point!'

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The Swan: writing
User: [info]swan_tower
Date: 2006-03-21 01:38 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Possible Solution?
Keyword:writing

I've tried it, and it's possible that the most recent version would cope with that better -- mine, as I said, is outdated, and I've been thinking about upgrading. Punctuation seems to be part of how it parses what you're saying, though (especially with periods and other sentence-final marks), so the error rate went up significantly when I tried to leave it out.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 03:32 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Possible Solution?

I don't about the rest of you cats, but I write utterly differently than I talk. Dictating stories would mean starting a whole new career, with new writing processes, essentially. (Not necessarily a bad thing, and WAAAAAY better that not writing at all, but still different.)

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Rose Fox
User: [info]rosefox
Date: 2006-03-21 04:42 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Possible Solution?

Out of curiosity, what was their line of work, and how fast is their typing speed? As someone who writes code as well as prose, multitasks a lot, and usually types upward of 85wpm (much faster than I speak, especially if I'm e-nun-ci-a-ting), I've found voice recognition software to be basically useless for me, and I'm always curious about the people who it actually works for.

That leaves aside, of course, the issue that the way I think when I'm typing is not much like the way I think when I'm speaking. There are similarities, but when I'm dictating I mostly notice the differences. I'm an editor, and I'm always going back and tweaking word choice and fixing typos as I write. With dictation that's nearly impossible. I would have just as hard a time switching to an older model typewriter, I think. Typing without a correction ribbon is about what dictation feels like for me: you screw one thing up and it's a total pain in the ass and huge waste of time to change it. I have to choose between editorial perfectionism and expenditure of reasonable amounts of effort, and even through two years of battling tendonitis in both forearms, it was easier to type in pain than to deal with dictating.

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houseboatonstyx
User: [info]houseboatonstyx
Date: 2006-03-21 00:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Hm, I've heard people say short stories don't make noticeable money and are only good for promoting their name to help sell their novels. Any comment?

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Joanne Merriam
User: [info]joannemerriam
Date: 2006-03-21 00:18 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

They haven't made me much money - but they've paid me a better rate per hour than my crap factory job. It all depends on your frame of reference, I guess.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 04:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I dunno. I make four figures a year off short stories. That's noticeable. But fundamentally the comment is true. And quite frankly, my short story career had a lot to do with positioning me to run up on novels as I'm doing right now.

More to the point, if you like writing short stories, write them. If you like writing novels, write them. If you like both, write both. It shows when a writer enjoys their work.

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robin catesby
User: [info]deedop
Date: 2006-03-21 00:59 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Most excellent post, sir, though I was, in my sekrit heart of hearts, hoping for some wide discrepancy at the end that would encourage me toward novels and away from short stories. :-)

Then again, perhaps that's what the ramping up/down & research time is all about for me. Tim Powers once mentioned (and I stupidly can't remember if it was in an interview or just in conversation) that he doesn't do many short stories because it takes him (or at least it feels like it takes him) almost as long to write a short story as it does a novel simply because of the research time involved.

It would be nice if time needed to research a 10k alt history piece = 1/10th the time needed to research a 100k alt history piece, but that's rarely ever the case. Not if you want a kick-ass alt history piece that's lacking in glaring errors, right? Moral? Don't make your short stories about things you have to research unless you're researching for a novel as well? ::Shrug:: Considering how bogged I get in research, it's advice I should probably take to heart.

As for ramping -- as someone who struggles to find writing time even once a week, I find the words per hour analysis absolutely fascinating. If I'm in that once a week mode (like now, dammit), my entire writing time is ramping and only ramping, and I know I'm not doing my best work. No, my best work comes from writing dares, hot streaks, even Nanowrimo, despite the shear dreadfulness of those drafts from a purely technical standpoint. The key, as you say, is to minimize ramping time. So much else comes from just that. Presumably, the more you practice at it, the faster you achieve that flow state; no different than sitting at meditation or long distance running -- the zone is more easily accessible with practice.

It might be worth applying these same tests to other artistic endeavors. I've noticed a significant ramp time in my web design & graphics work and always thought of it as eh, I'm a little rusty, I'll get back into it in a bit -- but I've never actually analyzed how much time I've lost by not following through a project from start to finish with little to no downtime. It rather ties in with that recent research that suggests we're not all as good at multitasking as we think we are. (There's a link for that somewhere; can't remember where and I'm not multitasking to find it, natch.)



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User: [info]elvesforeyes
Date: 2006-03-21 01:48 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I have a question. These six stories (well, five completed stories), were they from the top of the head or did you have notes of them as such? It might take me a month to come up with six story ideas, but I dunno...you did have all those wires and things plugged to your cranium before.

Just curious how much was planned and how much was just pushing through!

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 03:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Well...that's a difficult question to answer, possibly worthy of an entire post of it's own. In the usual sense, no, no notes. (Well, except for "Crossing the Seven" where I spent about twenty minutes doing etymological research and have a scratchfile of notes from that. But I did that immediately before I began typing.) *However*, I had set myself to writing all of these five (six) stories sometime in the past, knew they were coming, knew the topicality/market guidelines/invitation parameters I was working under for each. So down in the dark pipes of my hindbrain, work Was Being Done. However, from the outside (say, [info]bibliothec's point of view), it certainly looked off the top of the head. From the inside it more or less felt that way, but I know better.

I'll need to come back later and explain my cloakroom theory of idea development. FWIW, ideas are never a problem for me. I churn them and throw them away by the minute some days.

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锴 angry fishtrap 狗: going mad
User: [info]kaigou
Date: 2006-03-21 01:59 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:going mad

As someone diagnosed with adolescent ADHD (though never went back to ask if it's officially/formally resolved into adulthood and I've just kept the coping mechanisms or if the chemical basis remains), I can tell you that what you're calling 'burst speed' is a hallmark of the ADD/ADHD mind: it's called hyperfocus. Most can do it for short stints, but for the ADHD/ADD head, for some reason hyperfocus is more easily obtained and can extend well into several hours at a stretch, or longer. I tend to hyperfocus when writing the first draft, and have had 18K-20K days where I sat down in the morning and with the exception of the bladder DEMANDING that I pay attention, have not gotten up nor stopped typing. Everything else simply disappears.

I find it's damn hard to duplicate when revising; that is, I can hyperfocus when revising on hard copy but when it's time to insert those changes into the soft copy, woo, there goes my focus all over the place and I'm just like you: five minutes of working, check email, check blogs, five minutes of working, check journals, check email...

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 03:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

You have just precisely described my work habits, both the burst side and the soft focus side...luckily for me I'm still fast enough in soft focus mode not to lose my productivity completely.

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hkneale
User: [info]hkneale
Date: 2006-03-21 02:42 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

If you're one of those people who reads me talking about writing fast and says, "he's a freak, that won't work for me," I have a suggestion. Try it.

That's what I keep telling people, but they don't believe me. Maybe they'll believe you.

being able to write fast also makes a significant contribution to your ability to have a professional career.

If I wasn't able to write as quickly as I can, I would never get anything published. My life at the moment doesn't allow for the luxury of Time. Between a PT day job and two rather young daughters, I've got to fight for my writing time.

Interesting hypothesis about the on-ramp stuff. I don't have an "on-ramp" as such. Mine is more like a trebuchet. Because my actual butt-in-chair time is limited, I've gotta be able to sit down and crank out immediately. So I spend the time before I'm going to sit down thinking about what I'm going to write. This cranks the tension on my trebuchet. I am then so ready to write if I don't, I go nuts. The trebuchet flings me straight into my work and I can drop over fifteen hundred words in about an hour.

I crunched my numbers too a few months ago. For non-fic, I was pulling roughly $25/hr. For fiction, alas, it is much, much less. It's figure is not so much how many dollars and hour, but how many hours per dollar.

Days per dollar, sometimes.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 03:35 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Heh. Jerry Oltion once told me that over his working lifetime he'd netted about $0.25/hour.

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Zhaneel
User: [info]zhaneel69
Date: 2006-03-21 04:17 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Nice work, Jay.

The thing you left out, I think, is resales of your Shorts. That discussion hasn't been brought in, and I think should be relevant. I know you don't get a *lot* of resales, but there are some and it is relevant. Especially as you start releasing collections (HINT).

Zhaneel

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-21 14:01 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Awesome and Inspirational

Thank you sir. Please, link away. And I'm very glad I was able to be helpful to you.

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User: (Anonymous)
Date: 2006-03-21 14:40 (UTC)
Subject: Hmmm

Jay:

You know I respect you as a writer, but...this post didn't speak to me at all. It sounds, in the wrong hands, like the kind of approach that would result in instant hackdom.

JeffV

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-22 02:14 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Hmmm

Eh, it was mostly inner monolog exposed. I have a bad habit of overanalyzing stuff. I then have the good habit of disregarding my analyses and doing whatever the hell I want. But it seems to have been useful for a lot of folks.

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User: [info]shawn_scarber
Date: 2006-03-21 16:42 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

It's comforting to read that I'm not the only one who stops and starts to do little bits of research while I write.

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Insert Pithy Comment Here
User: [info]mariannelee
Date: 2006-03-21 21:21 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

This was fascinating, and gave me something to think about in my own writing progress.

Some things you did not address:
1) Efficiency. Not in your ADHD sense (and boy do you sound like you have it!) but in the efficiency you learn through writing oodles and gobs, in how to get your thoughts down on paper. I still write very slowly, partly because I'm still struggling with all that connective tissue between the dialog and visuals in my head. You know, the stuff that isn't always interesting to write but keeps the reader in the loop.

Anyway, for your case, maybe you've conquered that, but maybe you haven't completely, and you might exceed your own expectations.

2) Ideas. Isn't there any preparatory time for you? I spend a long time fermenting a story before I even sit down to write it. I don't outline short stories, except for in my head, but that still takes time. Is this what you call your down time? And are these stories ones that you have already plotted and outlined or are you creating on the fly? There's a huge difference in efficiency between them.

Someone in the comments mentioned hyperfocus, and I also thought of that when you talked about your efforts. It is something that almost cannot be factored in, because it is totally unpredictable.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-22 02:13 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Excellent questions. I think I shall defer them to a post of their very own, if you don't mind, though that will be another day or two in the making.

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An empty picture frame
User: [info]burger_eater
Date: 2006-03-22 23:25 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I've had this post open in a tab for days, looking for the time to respond in a serious way. I still don't have that time, but I'm going to try anyway. I haven't even been able to read all the other comments yet, so I apologize if I step on well-trod ground.

First: Yes, everyone should pay attention to the number of words they produce, and should try different things to increase their efficiency. For years, I was convinced that there were all sorts of things I couldn't do. It took a long to time to shed some of those inefficiencies, and I'm still working on others.

Second: Do you intend to try going full time? John Scalzi recently said that he formed his own corporation and arranged medical benefits for his family using just his writing income. Is there a point (financially speaking) at which that isn't sustainable?

Obviously, I'm not asking for you to post your bank statement or anything. I hope it doesn't seem that way. I just mean generally.

Third: I like your estimations for how long things take. Personally, my revisions take just as long as the initial draft, if not longer. But then, I'm not much of a stylist.

Fourth: about being (possibly) adult ADHD, have you read Making a Good Brain Great by Daniel Amen? I picked it up because John Joseph Adams mentioned it and I was intrigued. There are excercises and tips in it that might help.

I haven't quite finished the whole book yet, but it's pretty interesting.

Thanks.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-03-23 02:46 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

First: Yes, everyone should pay attention to the number of words they produce, and should try different things to increase their efficiency.

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced that's true for the general case of "everyone." Everyone interested in having a commercial career, perhaps. There are writers, Ted Chiang to name one, for whom 'efficiency' is the least interesting and valuable part of their fiction process. But in general, for writers aspiring to make an income from their work, I think you are correct.

Second: Do you intend to try going full time? [snip] Is there a point (financially speaking) at which that isn't sustainable?

You've got the question backwards. (Or maybe that's a typo.) It should be, "Is there a point at which that IS (or becomes) sustainable." Depends on the parameters. If I were young, single and lacked major financial commitments (like a house payment) I could live frugally on what I'm making now. I certainly lived on less in the mid-1980s. (Not sure about how that stacks up in adjusted dollars, though -- my rent back then was $300, and I split it.) But I have the Child, and the Mother of the Child to support, which entails a number of other commitments like their house and private school. Obviously some of those (school) are optional, but they're still very imporant to me. The bugbear for me personally is health insurance. The Child has a chronic illness and is not insurable except through a non-qualifying group. The only non-qualifying groups which have any reliable stability (and even that is chancy) are through major employers. It doesn't matter how much money I have, I can't buy her a decent plan. So my baseline is continued dayjob employment for at least the next 15 years, until she's out of college, regardless of the financial health of my writing career.

Haven't heard of that book before. It sounds interesting, but would need to get on the bottom of a very tall stack indeed before I read it... :D

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Thida
User: [info]waterowl
Date: 2006-08-22 01:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I found this fascinating. For a short story or a freelance writer where one's rates are less negotiable, efficiency is very important. However novels sell for hugely varying amounts. If your main concern is increasing money, unless your writing income is already in the top tier, you're better off improving the quality of your writing, or marketing or whatever else it takes to make your next novel sell for more, even if it takes a longer period of time. I'll write 1 book for 100,000 please, not 12 at 10,000 :) Obviously you need to balance the two since writing a new novel is a relatively sure thing for you, while for any author moving up can be quite difficult.

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Jay Lake
User: [info]jaylake
Date: 2006-08-22 12:58 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I'm not sure I'd describe it as a sure thing, but yah, writing under contract is a whole different fettle of quiche than writing to spec. It definitely influences my perceptions of productivity and timing in some huge ways.

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