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Lakeshore
An author of no particular popularity

Jay Lake
Date: 2008-01-04 06:24
Subject: [links] Link salad, Friday cutie
Security: Public
Location:Nuevo Rancho Lake
Mood:awake
Music:not much
Tags:contests, culture, links, lj
Architecture of the SublimeThe Edge of the American West on the Brooklyn Bridge and veneration of the built landscape. That's a pretty interesting blog, btw, might be worth adding to your bookmarks.

FDA Set to OK Cloned Meat — For once, I think I agree with this administration on something.

Don't forget the latest caption contest — Still in its entry phase, which I'll probably close tonight due to high participation.

Open thread is still open — I am a bit slow to respond due to some obvious distractions, but I'm paying attention.
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Arrow In A Stream
User: jabber
Date: 2008-01-04 16:25 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I don't understand the value of clone farming. Monoculture is a very bad idea and genetic diversity does not pose a production problem.
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Jay Lake: food-ribs
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-04 16:39 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:food-ribs
I don't see clone farming as the end game. Though frankly, it's how apples have been raised since forever, and how a lot of modern fruits and vegetables are raised commercially.

What I see this as is an intermediate step to commercially viable tissue cloning. If you can grow flank steak, why raise and slaughter cows?

The ethical and hygiene issues in the meatpacking industry are very powerful, and seem to me to provide a potential balance for the ethical and scientific issues of cloning.
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Arrow In A Stream
User: jabber
Date: 2008-01-04 17:02 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I just can't see cloning as the next logical step to selective breeding. The latter flirts with monoculture, but the former is nothing but.

I'm all for the vat-meat though. It will only have the same disease problems that mass-production of wine and beer has, so that doesn't worry me so.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-04 17:06 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
You are aware that apples are not bred? They don't breed true. No two apples off the same tree will grow identical new trees if germinated. All apple varietals are propagated as as cuttings and grafts. That's cloning without the lab, nothing but.

I don't disagree with you about the dangers of monoculture, not in the slightest, just pointing out that particular horse left the barn several thousands years ago with apples, and a century or more ago with table grapes and a number of other agricultural products.

Edited at 2008-01-04 05:06 pm (UTC)
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Arrow In A Stream
User: jabber
Date: 2008-01-05 00:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I was not aware of this about apples. I knew that this was common practice, but I didn't know it was the norm in industrial apple farming. Very interesting.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-05 00:46 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Well, any apple farming, really. Not just industrial. :D
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Arrow In A Stream
User: jabber
Date: 2008-01-05 04:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
So the "naturally born" crab-apples in my back yard, the ones that taste like ass and are useless for anything but golf practice, are the real deal, huh? Makes me wonder about all the people I know.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-05 04:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I dunno of crab-apples are the same species as fruit apples. But fruit apples have some really wild genetic variation and don't breed true. (Much like tulips, actually.) The way new breeds of apples come around is by growers messing with germination.

If you're interested in this, I highly recommend The Botany of Desire, which explains apple genetics and breeding at some length, and integrates it with social history. Fascinating stuff. He also talks about tulips, potatoes and marijuana in the book.
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User: ext_76272
Date: 2008-01-04 16:53 (UTC)
Subject: Thanks.
Thanks for the link. And the kind words. We really appreciate it.

Ari
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-04 17:07 (UTC)
Subject: Re: Thanks.
You are most welcome. So far I've found it to be a terrific blog, and I've linked several times now, I believe.
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