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Lakeshore
An author of no particular popularity

Jay Lake
Date: 2008-01-20 10:25
Subject: [politics] McCain and the real conservatives
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Location:Nuevo Rancho Lake
Mood:busy
Music:chatter
Tags:politics
You know, I have a lot of issues with McCain, stretching back to his Keating 5 days all the way forward to his support for the Iraq War and his equivocation on torture (ETA: I seem to have overstated this case.), but at the same time anybody who pisses off Limbaugh and DeLay can't be a total loss. I realize that the enemy of my enemy1 is not necessarily my friend, but this still could be promising.




1. Defining "enemy" in this second case as "those who have systematically looted the economy; shattered America's international reputation and power; ravaged civil liberties, individual rights, and the centuries-old system of checks and balance; all while melting down any semblance of fiscal responsibility." Or to put it somewhat more succinctly, Republicans.
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Matthew S. Rotundo: Radioactive
User: matthewsrotundo
Date: 2008-01-20 18:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Radioactive
That may be true, but I'd still rather have a Democrat in the White House.

On the other hand, I'm so happy Huckabee took a beating. Could this signify a loosening of the Christian Right's stranglehold on the GOP?

Nah, probably too much to hope for.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-20 19:15 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
You may rest assured I have not suddenly become a closet Republican.
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User: ex_chrisbil
Date: 2008-01-20 19:18 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Cheeky
... I saw the fish logo on the back of your car, Jay! Wait until I get those Jay Lake Votes Huckabee pins printed up...

Wait, do you even have a car?
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-20 19:20 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Oddly, I'm wearing a Huckabee for President t-shirt today.
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User: ex_chrisbil
Date: 2008-01-20 19:35 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Sly
Give Bush A Third Term t-shirt is in the wash again, eh? *g*
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biomekanic
User: biomekanic
Date: 2008-01-20 19:28 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Watching the Theocons finally feeling their oats and deciding that they're not just going to be a labor force for the Corporate and Neocon branchs of the Republican party has been a delightful developement.

I'm sitting back with a big ol' bag of popcorn to watch the fight. It's my personal hope that they manage to shred the party so badly they'll be ineffective for the next two or three generations.

I'd love to see "the big tent" get pulled down.
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Matthew S. Rotundo: Radioactive
User: matthewsrotundo
Date: 2008-01-21 19:36 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Radioactive
I'd love it, too, but I would caution against overconfidence. Everyone's been writing the GOP's epitaph lately. I'm not convinced the party is in as much disarray as the media would have us believe. This is a down election cycle for them, surely. But the end of the road? They're still very well financed and better able than Democrats, I think, to put aside internecine squabbles.
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Danny Adams
User: madwriter
Date: 2008-01-20 19:51 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Though considering how many people thought Huckabee was a shoe-in for SC, maybe it is a hopeful sign.
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User: ex_chrisbil
Date: 2008-01-20 19:19 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Content
This is funny, actually, as I've spent a large part of the afternoon trying to read up on McCain and figure if he would be the best Republican candidate. While it's irrelevant in as much as I'd rather have a Democrat as your President, you have to be realistic that it's a two party race.
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Jay Lake: pissed-satan
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-20 19:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:pissed-satan
"best Republican candidate" is a relative term, but he doesn't seem to be batshit insane like the Bush-Huckabee wing of the party, and he doesn't seem to be a big money narcissist like the Romney-Guiliani wing. He more represents much the usual corruption and general lack of principles which characterizes most modern conservative leaders.

Edited at 2008-01-20 07:24 pm (UTC)
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User: ex_chrisbil
Date: 2008-01-20 19:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Less-Cynical-Chris would say that McCain has sometimes mis-guided principles in contrast to most Republican's sheer lack of, but, of course, Cynical-Chris thinks you are probably correct.
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martianmooncrab
User: martianmooncrab
Date: 2008-01-20 19:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Other than McCain wants to completely ban abortion no matter what...
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Danny Adams
User: madwriter
Date: 2008-01-20 19:52 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'll admit that I still enjoy seeing Limbaugh, Fox News, et. al. spluttering over Ron Paul, too...

(For which I'm sure they'd say I'm going to Hell for. :) )
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User: ellameena
Date: 2008-01-20 20:36 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
What do you mean equivocation on torture? McCain has been solidly against torture all along. He is a victim of torture himself...
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-20 20:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
My understanding of his record on the waterboarding question certainly doesn't reflect well on him. (The fact that it is even a question at all reflects well on none of us who are Americans.)

Am I wrong? Has he been clear and unequivocable in opposition to the Administration position on torture?
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User: ellameena
Date: 2008-01-20 20:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
What did he say about waterboarding? I missed it.

I think it's possible you're mixing him up with someone else, because my impression of him all along is that he has been very much against abuses of prisoners in US custody, including all forms of torture. I'm willing to be corrected, though, because I don't have any sources of information on this.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-20 20:52 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Hmm, I may be. I think I was thinking of stories like this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/01/politics/main3441067.shtml

Where McCain seems to unwilling to specifically condemn what's very well documented to be going on.

However, on the point of the subject itself:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080110/cm_thenation/45269095

(and plenty of other links)

He seems to be clearly against it.

So he's against it, but he won't support action to force this administration to stop it.

Off to edit my post...
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Michael Curry
User: mcurry
Date: 2008-01-20 21:05 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
So he's against it, but he won't support action to force this administration to stop it.

That's pretty much McCain in a nutshell right there.
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Kevin Standlee: Pointless Arrow
User: kevin_standlee
Date: 2008-01-20 20:49 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Pointless Arrow
My main complaint with McCain is that he's opposed to public transportation. He falls into that same trap that others do of calling money spent on Amtrak and other public transit a "subsidy," while money paid to subsidize our highway and air transportation networks is called "investment." He's one of Amtrak's biggest opponents, and would happily shut the system down tomorrow. He'd certainly prefer that Amtrak trains not run through his state, and it's at least in part his fault that Phoenix is the largest city in the USA that is not directly connected to the US passenger railroad network.

I know this isn't the biggest issue in this election, or even a very high profile one, but it certainly bothers me. At least Rudi knows that you can't shut down the rail and other public transit systems just because the lose money on operations. His city would strangle to death without its publicly-subsidized rail and bus network.
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russ: quo vadis
User: goulo
Date: 2008-01-21 06:40 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:quo vadis
Good issue, and all too low-profile. It's amazing how much cars are subsidized. If people really had to pay the full costs for driving cards, society would be quite different... a lot fewer people would own cars, and trains, busses, trams, etc would be much more prominent.

I recommend the book "Suburban Nation" to anyone interested in how cities and society have become more and more designed for cars instead of people.
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ericjamesstone
User: ericjamesstone
Date: 2008-01-21 03:51 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I don't know if you read Howard Tayler's webcomic Schlock Mercenary, but now seems a good time to bring up Rule 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, no more, no less.

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20030929.html
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-21 03:54 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
That is one of my favorite Web reads, every single day...heh.

Isn't that the Pirate Rule Book?
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ericjamesstone
User: ericjamesstone
Date: 2008-01-21 03:57 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
The Seven Habits Of Highly Effective Pirates.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-01-21 04:04 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Thank you. My mind playing tricks there.

That may currently be my favorite piece of SFnal narrative out there, though I note his continuity is being a bit stressed by repeated stakes-raising.
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