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Lakeshore
An author of no particular popularity

Jay Lake
Date: 2008-10-23 08:01
Subject: [politics] Obama
Security: Public
Tags:politics

It occurs to me watching this that Obama may be this generation’s Ronald Reagan.

Originally published at jlake.com. You can comment here or there.

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User: ex_paulskem
Date: 2008-10-23 15:07 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Agreed.

I think we're potentially on the cusp of a transformative election, not unlike 1932, when the New Deal began, and 1980, when the New Deal began to be dismantled. If Obama wins in a landslide, as looks increasingly likely, and if, most importantly, his progressive policy prescriptions work, then Americans en masse will reevaluate their relationship to, and the role of, government.

Here's hoping.
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User: dirkcjelli
Date: 2008-10-23 16:00 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
his progressive policy prescriptions work

What progressive policies?
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User: ex_paulskem
Date: 2008-10-23 16:18 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Government subsidized gap healthcare coverage, increased infrastructure spending, increased taxes on corporations and wealthy combined with decreased taxes/tax credits for those in the middle tax brackets and below, the Ledbetter Equal Pay Act, increased access to college (through tax and/or service credits), an emphasis on green technology investment, and I could go on.

I take it those don't meet your definition of "progressive policies." Fair enough. They do mine.
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User: dirkcjelli
Date: 2008-10-23 16:28 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Removing Bush's tax cuts is not a "tax increase".

Increasing taxes on people/entities who don't pay taxes isn't a tax increase.

Given that Obama's plan would preserve the role of private insurers, and that such private insurers are actively encouraged (nay, legally required) to work to deny care... Malcolm X's line seems appropriate. If a knife has been stabbed into your back 9 inches, and pulled out 6... this is not progress.

He has also implied he'll cut an unspecified number of his big promises to deal with the deficit.

His track record of triangulation is not encouraging.

You can call your shoe 'progressive' for all I care.
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Michael Curry
User: mcurry
Date: 2008-10-23 16:40 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I like to point people who think Obama is something other than a neo-liberal technocrat to this piece about Obamanomics over at Firedoglake.

Obamanomics then is "do the same things smarter and with some more kindness for ordinary people". Unfortunately, no matter how smart you do the same things that got the US to this point, they are still stupid. Doing stupid smart is not what the US needs.


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User: ex_paulskem
Date: 2008-10-23 17:17 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I've read Ian at FDL before, though not that particular piece, which misrepresents Obama on at least two points.

First, Obama in the third debate (and subsequently) has not embraced PAYGO, so that's no barrier to a large scale policy initiative (say, health care). In fact, his support for the current Pelosi stimulus, together with his tax policy generally, indicates his agreement with Keynesian thinking on deficit spending. Ian may find Obama's spending priorities (as illustrated by the targets for his tax credits) ill-aimed, but that's a difference of degree, not magnitude.

Second, Obama promises a heavy investment in green technology, a private-public sector research project along the lines of the Manhattan Project. I'll concede he's soft on details at this point, but so it goes. But his position is directionally aligned with that which Ian advocates and describes as "liberal."

At the end of the day, I don't care particularly whether the policies Obama espouses fit nearly into one's conception of liberal or progressive or neo-liberal or whatever. I care whether or not they accord with my own view of good public policy, understanding, as I make that evaluation, that politics is where prudence meets principle. Ian misses that last point by a country mile. Buy up consumers' fuel-guzzling cars? Yeah, that'd fly in this country.

No candidate is perfect. No basket of policies espoused by a particular candidate is perfect. So it goes. But I'm not interested in making the perfect the enemy of the good.


Edited at 2008-10-23 05:21 pm (UTC)
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Michael Curry
User: mcurry
Date: 2008-10-23 17:25 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Agreed, no candidate's basket of policies is perfect, I just find some of Obama's choices to be farther from the ideal than I would like, and I agree with the thrust of Ian's criticisms even if one can squabble with some of the details. Whether or not one agrees with what Obama's is offering, I believe that labeling it as "progressive" is, on the whole, misleading.
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User: ex_paulskem
Date: 2008-10-23 17:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Agreed, no candidate's basket of policies is perfect, I just find some of Obama's choices to be farther from the ideal than I would like, and I agree with the thrust of Ian's criticisms even if one can squabble with some of the details. Whether or not one agrees with what Obama's is offering, I believe that labeling it as "progressive" is, on the whole, misleading.

I don't, but I understand why you do. :-) Fair enough.
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User: ex_paulskem
Date: 2008-10-23 16:47 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
You can call your shoe 'progressive' for all I care.

And you can behave like a snarky adolescent for all I care.

Are we done?

Edited at 2008-10-23 05:18 pm (UTC)
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User: dirkcjelli
Date: 2008-10-23 17:28 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I forget... is it progressive or not when you bomb your own allies?

It is so hard to tell after Bush followed Obama's suggestion on that point.
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User: dirkcjelli
Date: 2008-10-23 15:07 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
And Bill Clinton and JFK.
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Brennan M. O'Keefe
User: harmfulguy
Date: 2008-10-23 15:17 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2008-10-23 15:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Coming from me, that's not necessarily a compliment, no.
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mcjulie
User: mcjulie
Date: 2008-10-23 16:00 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
So what do you mean by it, exactly? (I wasn't able to make it all the way through the video.)
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Michael Curry
User: mcurry
Date: 2008-10-23 15:26 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'd be happier about Obama being this generation's Reagan if it just meant the vision thing, rather than also including some of his approach to economics.
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In a heaven of people only some want to fly: angel
User: chipmunk_planet
Date: 2008-10-23 20:13 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:angel
FDR was more my thought.
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