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Lakeshore
An author of no particular popularity

Jay Lake
Date: 2009-11-22 05:31
Subject: [links] Link salad hears a high lonesome sound
Security: Public
Tags:art, books, calendula, cool, links, personal, politics, process, religion, reviews, science, stories, videos, writing
A bit more on Interzone 225 — With novelette "Bone Island" by calendula_witch and me.

Get Fuzzy on the perils of authorship (again)

The Extraordinary World of Ex Libris Art — (Via Dark Roasted Blend.)

Best Use of Exploitative TactisDrawn! with a very strange, short animation. Cool, and vaguely NSFW.

Cassini buzzes Enceladus once again — Mmm, photographic goodness.

Why do we hate? Academics seek answer in new field — (Via Freakonomics Blog.)

JFK nephew barred from communion: report — Mmm, I loves me some separation of Church and State. And what is it about religious people that makes them want to force the rest of society to abide by their particular beliefs?

?otD: Do you feel like you're king of the hill?



11/22/2009
Body movement: 120 minute suburban walk (about to depart)
Hours slept: 6.25
This morning's weigh-in: n/a (not yet)
Currently reading: Finch by Jeff VanderMeer

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cathshaffer
User: cathshaffer
Date: 2009-11-22 14:31 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
JFK nephew barred from communion: report — Mmm, I loves me some separation of Church and State. And what is it about religious people that makes them want to force the rest of society to abide by their particular beliefs?

---

When he was confirmed, Kennedy had to say this: "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church teaches, believes and proclaims to be revealed by God." The church is not forcing the rest of society to abide by their beliefs--they are asking Kennedy to withdraw himself as a communicant based on a conflict between his stated political beliefs and the statement he made when he was accepted into the Church. Strictly an internal Catholic thing. :-)
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cj_ruby
User: cj_ruby
Date: 2009-11-22 17:16 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
The Church's position on this comes from I Corinthians 27-29 (NIV)"[27]Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. [28]A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. [29]For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself."

With Kennedy's position on abortion being public the Church cannot allow Kennedy taking communion in an unworthy manner and bring judgment upon himself. If the Church did allow Kennedy to take communion, believing him "unworthy", they would be culpable in Kennedy's "sin".
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(no subject) - (Anonymous)
cathshaffer
User: cathshaffer
Date: 2009-11-23 17:37 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
There's nothing wrong with that. Many people I respect are separated from the Catholic Church because of such disagreements.
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2009-11-23 15:15 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Mmm, I take your point, but this still seems very political. Are people routinely barred from Communion for any other violations of Church teachings? (I have no idea if this takes place or not, but I've never seen it reported.) The bishop is publicly pressuring Kennedy to change a political position.
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Brian Dolton
User: tchernabyelo
Date: 2009-11-23 17:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
No, the Catholic Church is saying "either you can be a Catholic, or you can be a politician supporting abortion, but you can't be both". The catholic Church has no problem with people committing sins... as long as they confess and repent. Since, presumably, Kennedy does not repent of his support for abortion, then he can indeed be denied Holy Communion.

As for your wider point - "what is it about religious people that makes them want to force the rest of society to abide by their particular beliefs?" - surely you know the answer? They honestly (if we are to be charitable - I am sure there are some who simply find it convenient to push their agenda) believe that they are privy to the word of God Almighty and that they have a duty to God Almighty to try and bring others to the same beliefs and to enforce the same standards of behaviour. That their own religious texts can be read differently (last I checked both the Bible and the Koran are pretty explicit about leaving God's work to God) is not seen as a defence as they believe they have the "right" interpretation and others do not. Thi is the problem I have with religion - that it actively tries to interfere with the non-religious, something that is not generally true in the reverse. I don't wish to stop anyone worshipping their chosen God, but there are people out there who very much DO want to stop me from not worshipping one.
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cathshaffer
User: cathshaffer
Date: 2009-11-23 17:34 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I think it does get political if there is a public sanction right when there is sensitive legislation being drafted. However, from further reading of the news on this, it sounds like this happened in a private letter back in 2006 or 2007, and Kennedy decided to go public with it just recently, prompting the Bishop to respond with his side of the story.

To answer your question, I don't know how often a pastor privately asks someone to refrain from communion, but I do know that it is very common for people to not take communion for various reasons--say, having divorced and remarried, but not yet received a formal anullment. I know some people come to mass very faithfully, but are not fully initiated as Catholics because they don't accept the authority of the pope, though they still get a lot out of the other parts of the service (and communion is actually not required to be a good catholic or get to heaven or whatever). Old-school Catholics will often abstain from communion if they have missed a weekend mass for a reason less than dire illness, until they can confess and be absolved of the sin. The church rather deliberately gives fuzzy guidelines on this, because they want people to listen to their conscience, and in some ways it can be a moving target where you have some people who hold themselves to a higher standard than others.
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A large duck
User: burger_eater
Date: 2009-11-22 16:55 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
But Kennedy isn't "the rest of society." He's a Catholic, and this seems to be an internal Catholic matter.

Loved the Get Fuzzy, though.
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User: mmegaera
Date: 2009-11-22 20:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:cats
And what is it about religious people that makes them want to force the rest of society to abide by their particular beliefs?

Kennedy aside, most of the more obnoxious religions mandate doing so specifically. You're not a good whatever if you don't spread the good news [gag].
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