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Lakeshore
An author of no particular popularity

Jay Lake
Date: 2012-03-12 05:46
Subject: [personal|religion] So this atheist walks into a church...
Security: Public
Tags:child, friends, oregon, personal, religion, travel
Yesterday, [info]the_child, [info]mlerules and I drove down to Springfield, OR to hear [info]daveraines preach. Dave is the pastor at the St. Paul Center United Methodist Church there. I've known Dave for a number of years, always liked and admired him, and finally made the time to drive 100 miles to hear him at his pulpit.

It was interesting going back to church. My Granddaddy Lake was ordained in the Disciples of Christ, and I was certainly heavily churched at points in my early youth under his influence. The Protestant order of service is quite familiar to me. Admittedly, the Methodists come out of a different provenance than the Disciples, but the basic patterns are very similar. The group experience, the singing, the shared interests — as always, I can easily see the secular side of what draws people together. (Though I did have to explain to [info]the_child that balloon animals were not an ordinary part of church.) Dave gave a good sermon on the Holy Spirit, the centerpiece of a lovely service.

Quite a few years ago I made the explicitly self-conscious choice to be an atheist, not an agnostic, for reasons that continue to seem eminently sensible to me. At the same time, I would be the last person to deny the role of spirituality and mythos in the human experience. As a result, I sometimes describe myself as a "low church atheist" — meaning I'm not out to deconvert anybody. I have an absolute respect for the right of everyone to worship (or not) as they please. My quarrels with religion have more to do with the way some believers confuse their private spiritual experience with good public policy, and try to insert their magical thinking into law. Most Christians wouldn't accept Jews attempting to legislate against the eating of bacon, why should the rest of us accept Christianists attempting to legislate their personal religious beliefs into law?

It's also the case that I don't want to impose my personal views of the universe on [info]the_child. After all, if I rail at religious conservatives for confining their children in narrow mental boxes, how big a hypocrite would I be to deny my daughter the same choices I decry them for denying theirs? If she feels a spiritual call, I'll do my best to help her seek out whatever voice it is that speaks to her from within. She had a lot of questions for [info]daveraines at lunch after the service, where we met up with various members of the Wordos.

I don't yet know what this all meant to my daughter. To me, visiting Dave's church was a little trip into my own past, and a much-needed reminder to me, who so often views religion through a contentious political lens, that there are happy, sane religious people all over the place out there.

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daveraines
User: daveraines
Date: 2012-03-12 14:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'm glad you all came. I appreciate your presence more than I can say. It was great fun talking to your daughter. (And useful for me - finding out what kind of questions a bright newcomer to church really has!)
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User: elizaeffect
Date: 2012-03-12 17:15 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Definitely great to expose her to this stuff. I have in my acquaintance: 1) people who were raised ultra-atheist and ended up angry and bitter about it as adults; 2) people who were raised ultra-religious and have mellowed but not lost their fulfilling spirituality since; 3) plenty of people raised religious who made the same choice you did; and 4) someone who was raised with moderate but ineffectual churching, left the nest, got a massive dose of True Religion from a college classmate and is now in a cult. It seems like a crapshoot.

I consider religion extremely dangerous in the wrong hands (and the news is full of its abuses in said hands), but I don't deny that it also drives great acts. Still kind of terrified of addressing The Religion Thing with hypothetical future offspring, so your thoughts on the matter are appreciated!
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User: radiantlisa
Date: 2012-03-12 18:17 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'm constantly vastly amused at the bemusement of my godson's parents at the fact that he turned out religious. Neither of them is the slightest bit religious (one believes in God, but not organized religion; the other is a Buddhist atheist). I always say to them - what choice did you leave him? If he wanted to rebel in that particular way, the only way was to be religious.

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randy_smith2
User: randy_smith2
Date: 2012-03-13 19:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
It sounds like it was a good service. I appreciate your views and, as always, your even-handedness. We religious types appreciate that, especially given what we get from many of the "new atheists" these days. Jay, you are a breath of fresh air!
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Jay Lake
User: jaylake
Date: 2012-03-13 22:42 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Thank you, sir. Like I said, I will absolutely stand behind everyone's right to believe what they will and live as they see fit, absent harm to others. Whether I find those beliefs sublime or laughable or somewhere in between is irrelevant. All I ask is the same courtesy in return.
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Dichroic
User: dichroic
Date: 2012-03-13 20:35 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Actually, if there were an apocalypse, I would be headed to the Springfield area rather than Grants Pass. (Which is actually kind of funny, because my husband is from GP. He hasn't read that anthology yet, though it's on his list.)
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